In this episode, I depart from my original plans to continue turning my old Scripture lessons into podcast episodes. I’ve been going through old audiocassettes and downloading them to my computer, and I found some long-lost lectures that were key to my faith journey as a foundation of the lessons taught in the Catholic Church for 30 years. I hope to return to presenting more of those lessons and upcoming episodes soon.
Links of Interest for this episode
- Fr. Paul Landwerlen: https://www.archindy.org/criterion/local/2025/06-13/landwerlen.html
- Episode 97a: https://contemplating-life.com/?p=525
- Episode 12: https://contemplating-life.com/?p=69
- 1 Corinthians 12:4-27: https://bible.usccb.org/bible/1corinthians/12?4
- Papal encyclical on the “Mystical Body of Christ”: https://www.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_29061943_mystici-corporis-christi.html
- Ephesians 4:4-13: https://bible.usccb.org/bible/ephesians/4?4
- Romans 12:4-5: https://bible.usccb.org/bible/romans/12?4
- Rev. Everett L. ”Terry” Fullam: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everett_L._Fullam
- Cerebral palsy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
- Ephesians 1:1: https://bible.usccb.org/bible/hebrews/1
- Episode 14: https://contemplating-life.com/?p=76
- Episode 90: https://contemplating-life.com/?p=484
- Scott Hahn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Hahn
- The Five Solae of the Protestant Reformation on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_solae
- Christian Justification on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justification_(theology)
- Catechesis on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catechesis
Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/contemplatinglife
Where to listen to this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/contemplatinglife
YouTube playlist of this and all other episodes: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFFRYfZfNjHL8bFCmGDOBvEiRbzUiiHpq
YouTube Version
Shooting Script
>Hello, this is Chris Young. Welcome to Episode 98 of Contemplating Life.
I’m going to depart from my plans to go on with my next re-creation of one of my old RCIA lessons. I mentioned last time that I was taking some time off from the podcast because my personal life is complicated. For the few of you who might be listening who don’t know me personally, big changes are coming my way. After much discernment and conversation, my family and I have concluded it’s time for me to move out of the home I’ve lived in since I was three years old and to transition to a skilled nursing facility.
I’ll talk more about this decision and the process I went through in a future episode, but that’s not what we want to talk about today.
In preparation for the move, I’ve been going through old boxes of stuff and deciding what to do with it. For several months, I’ve been going through VHS home movies and transferring them to my computer and then uploading them to YouTube. Some of them have been lectures from catechists and theologians who provided the foundation for much of my theological teachings. The addendum to Episode 97 came from one of these recently rediscovered tapes.
Now I’m going through boxes of audio cassette tapes, and I’ve found a treasure that I want to share with you. In Episode 12 of this podcast, I discussed the various influences that led me to rejoin the Catholic Church after being away for nearly a decade.
I shared a story about a taped lecture Father Paul gave me, which he believed would encourage me to return to the Church. He had the tape queued up to a particular section he thought I would like.
The overall theme of the conference from which the recording came was “What on earth is God doing for heaven’s sake?” I thought that was a hilariously clever pun. Anyway, I listened to the tape, but I was unimpressed. I don’t know when it was, but sometime later, perhaps months later, I turned the tape over and listened to the whole thing front to back, both sides. There was a story that totally blew me away. It had a profound influence on my return to the Church, and it became part of the Christian witness story I shared about myself during our Christ Renews His Parish renewal program. I also include the story in one of my RCIA lessons.
I didn’t know what happened to the tape. I thought perhaps I had returned it to him. When he passed away a few months ago, I considered asking my friend Judy, who was helping Father Paul’s brother deal with his affairs, if she had seen any boxes of tapes that perhaps I could go through and find that special tape. I wasn’t sure how involved she was in going through Father Paul’s belongings. Maybe not all. So I never pursued it. I thought perhaps it was my last opportunity to retrieve this precious piece of memorabilia that was so fundamental to my religious reawakening.
But recently, while going through a box of my old cassette tapes, I found it!
I should’ve known I wouldn’t give it back to him. It’s part of my personality to be a miser with information. My dear friend and spiritual director, Sister Maria Beesing, who is my role model for avoiding such miserliness, jokes that we are the kind of people who are afraid to loan a book to someone for fear that when they return it, the pages will be blank. Ridiculous, but I understand it. That’s me. I should’ve known I wouldn’t give up that precious tape.
Anyway, I put it in my clunky old boombox that barely works. I plugged an adapter cable into the headphone jack and connected it to a capture device on my PC. I hit play.
As I downloaded the audio to my computer, I listened with great joy and occasionally shed tears over words I had not heard in over 40 years.
Before I share this piece of tape with you, I need to give you some theological background. In Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians, he was settling a dispute over spiritual gifts. Some were arguing that the gift of speaking in tongues or the interpretation of tongues meant you had more than your fair share of the Holy Spirit where whereas other spiritual gifts were believed to be less important, much to the dismay of those who possess them. So in First Corinthians, chapter 12, beginning with verse 4, we read…
“There are different kinds of spiritual gifts but the same Spirit; there are different forms of service but the same Lord; there are different workings but the same God who produces all of them in everyone.
“To each individual, the manifestation of the Spirit is given for some benefit.
“To one is given through the Spirit the expression of wisdom; to another the expression of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit; to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit; to another mighty deeds; to another prophecy; to another discernment of spirits; to another varieties of tongues; to another interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit produces all of these, distributing them individually to each person as he wishes.
“As a body is one though it has many parts, and all the parts of the body, though many, are one body, so also Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, slaves or free persons, and we were all given to drink of one Spirit.
“Now the body is not a single part, but many. If a foot should say, ‘Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,’ it does not for this reason belong any less to the body. Or if an ear should say, ‘Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,’ it does not for this reason belong any less to the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole body were hearing, where would the sense of smell be?”
Sorry, I have to interrupt to tell a joke. A guy says, “My dog has no nose.” The other guy says, “How does he smell?” The first guy says, “Terrible.” [Rimshot]. Anyway, continuing with verse 18…
“But as it is, God placed the parts, each one of them, in the body as he intended. If they were all one part, where would the body be? But as it is, there are many parts, yet one body. The eye cannot say to the hand, ‘I do not need you,’ nor again the head to the feet, ‘I do not need you.’
“Indeed, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are all the more necessary, and those parts of the body that we consider less honorable, we surround with greater honor, and our less presentable parts are treated with greater propriety, whereas our more presentable parts do not need this. But God has so constructed the body as to give greater honor to a part that is without it, so that there may be no division in the body, but that the parts may have the same concern for one another. If [one] part suffers, all the parts suffer with it; if one part is honored, all the parts share its joy.
“Now you are Christ’s body, and individually parts of it.”
Think about that for a minute.
You are the body of Christ, and individually, you are parts of it.
This passage, along with Ephesians 4:4-13 and Romans 12:4-5, is known theologically as the Mystical Body of Christ. The idea is that together as members of the Church, we make Christ present here on Earth. I already knew about this concept even though I had not yet studied theology. We hear the above Scripture passages on two Sundays in the season of Epiphany. So, I had probably heard homilies reflecting on this passage many times.
With that context in mind, here is an excerpt from Father Terry Fullam’s presentation, recorded at a priests and deacons conference in 1981.
I hope the copyright holder will forgive me for sharing an excerpt from the tape with my audience. It’s such an important part of my return to the Church that I just have to share it. Here is an excerpt…
[Rev. Fullam speaking]
In our sessions together throughout the week, we have been looking at the general topic, “What on earth is God doing for heaven’s sake?” The intention is not to focus on what you are doing or I am doing, what the church is doing or what we are not doing, but what God is doing.
[Me speaking]
That was the opening of the tape. Let’s fast-forward to the part of the tape I want you to hear.
[Fast-forward sound effect followed by Rev. Fullam speaking]
I had a woman, came to one of our conferences at our church on parish renewal. Totally paralyzed. Totally… Couldn’t move a muscle. She was on a stretcher. Strapped across the chest, the waist, and the legs.
And it was the opening session of our conference on parish renewal, and I was speaking about the headship of Christ over the church, and what that meant practically.
She was… Her stretcher had been brought right down to the front of the church in front of the pews on my left. And as I was finishing my talk, she got my attention. And she said, “May I speak?”
I said, “Yes.”
And with a remarkably strong voice for such a weakened body, she said, without turning her head, for she could not turn her head and face the congregation, she said, “I want everyone in this church to look at me right now.”
She said, “In my mind’s eye, I can see myself walking, and running, and hiking, and skiing… All things I’ve never done. But I can see myself doing it in my mind.”
She said, “I can even decide I’m going to do it. I can make up my mind, I’m going to get right up off this bed and walk away. The only thing is, I just can’t do it. And the reason I can’t do it is because there is some kind of breakdown between my brain and the limbs of my body.”
And then she paused. And this is what she said, I’ll never forget it.
She said, “Look at me, everyone. Look at me, for I am a living parable of the Church today.”
Nothing wrong with Jesus, the head of the church. He’s not confused by the mess that we see. He’s not even perplexed by it.
Will you be offended if I say to you, “I think I know what God’s problem is with this church?” I believe I do. He is attached to a body that is largely unresponsive. A body bent and set on doing it its own way. He is attached to a spactic body. A spactic body is a body that has motion. Its limbs move erratically without coordination. Oh, there is motion in the body, but it’s not accomplishing anything. His problem is that his headship is not recognized and then acted upon.
[Me speaking]
Hearing this woman describe herself as being trapped in a body that is unresponsive to her will naturally resonated with me, being in a similar situation. Her spinal cord injury left her unable to move despite her will to do so. As you heard, she said this was a parable or metaphor for a problem we face in the Church today. We, as members of the Body of Christ, often do nothing in accord with the Will of God, who is the head.
During my discipleship witness presentation in the Christ Renews His Parish program, as well as in later RCIA lessons, I would tell this woman’s story almost exactly the way she tells it here in the tape.
Then I add, “In the same way, my body is unresponsive to my will, not because of a spinal cord injury, but from a neuromuscular disease that leaves my muscles weak and ineffective. In the same way, when our faith is weak, we cannot respond to the will of God. Furthermore, I think of my dear friend Christopher Lee, who had cerebral palsy. His limbs were so spactic and uncontrollable that he had to keep his wrists strapped down to the armrests of his wheelchair to keep them from flying about. So, for someone with CP, there is no lack of movement; however, their limbs fly about uncontrollably, not responding to their will. And sometimes, in the church, people run around doing things, believing that they are accomplishing God’s will, but they are really just flying around uncontrollably.
“I know what it’s like to live in a body that is unresponsive to my will. Although I survive that, I wouldn’t wish it upon my worst enemy. I don’t know what part of the body I am. I might be the pinky finger on the left hand. I might be the second toe on the right foot. Yet, when I don’t play my part in the Body of Christ, I handicap that body. I handicap the Church. I can’t do that. I have to play my part. I have to seek God’s will and attempt to do his will as my part in making Christ present here on earth. Whatever part I am, great or small, I strive always to contribute the best I can.”
That’s how I’ve been telling that story for decades. It’s what motivated me to give of my time and talent to the Church for the past 40+ years.
By the way, I thought the extension of her metaphor to someone with spactic muscles was my addition to the story. However, listening to the tape anew, I see she made that connection as well. My extension of the metaphor to someone like me with weak muscles is my own addition to the story.
As I downloaded the entire tape, front and back, I listened with further joy and surprise. I was amazed at how much this lecturer sounded like me. Okay, obviously it’s the other way around. I sound like him. I didn’t realize how much of that lecture shaped my later teaching.
I couldn’t identify the unimpressive part that Father Paul initially wanted me to listen to. This guy was saying things that I had been saying to my students for 30 years. I had no idea that this tape was the origin of so much of my work.
Here is another excerpt. Tell me, my fans, have you ever heard me say things like this?
[Rev. Fullam speaks]
We are talking about a God who has spoken. In times past, in many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets. But in these last days, he has spoken to us by his son. You see, we are talking about the God who speaks. Theologians have a word for it. They call it “revelation.” God has revealed himself unto us. And had he not chosen to do that, you and I would know absolutely nothing about him. So, you see, the first thing we must recognize is that God is a god who speaks to us.
[Me speaking]
Here is an excerpt from Episode 90 of this podcast.
[Me speaking in episode 90]
The overarching theme of these lessons is that our God is a God who speaks. We know what we know about God because it has been revealed to us throughout the ages.
What we know about God, we know because He has revealed things to us in a variety of ways.
And finally, in the letter to the Hebrews, Chapter 1, it begins, “In times past, God spoke in partial and various ways to our ancestors through the prophets; in these last days, he spoke to us through a son, whom he made heir of all things and through whom he created the universe.”
[Me speaking in current episode]
Okay, that was me back in Episode 90. We now return to our current episode.
Granted, he was teaching standard Catholic theology. The themes he covered, I heard from other sources over the years, and those sources influenced me as well. Note, however, I really wasn’t that interested in Catholic theology prior to my return to the Church. Even if the themes in this lecture were not the sole source of my embracing them, they clearly had to be the first I had ever heard such themes.
In Episode 14, I explained that I can get faith and reason to peacefully coexist within me by not trying to prove God’s existence. I take his existence as an axiom upon which I build everything else. I thought I had gotten that concept, a different tape from Father Paul. It turns out, it was all on the same lecture, on the same tape! I couldn’t believe it. Yet again, this allegedly unimpressive lecture was another key foundation upon which I’ve built my entire faith journey for over 40 years.
Here is another excerpt where Terry Fullam explains why trying to prove the existence of God is a bad idea.
[Rev. Fullam speaks]
This means that the God I am talking about is not the kind of God you can find at the end of a carefully constructed philosophical argument. It’s not that kind of a God. With all due regard to St. Thomas [Aquinas], the God we are talking about could not be proved by the mind of man.
An elementary principle of logic is involved in this. You can never have more in the conclusion than you have in the premise. That’s a simple fact of logic. You will never get God at the end of an argument. If he’s there at all, he must be there as first premise. As indeed he is presented to us in the holy Scripture. So, the God I speak of is not the kind of God you can prove with your puny mind. He’s not the kind of God you can find at the bottom of the test tube in a carefully controlled scientific experiment. He’s not that kind of a God.
He is a God about whom we would know nothing had he not chosen to reveal himself.
The Bible starts with the words, “In the beginning, God…” You see, you will turn in vain to Scripture to see any kind of formal argument for God’s existence. You will not see a single argument presented. Not even one. Now the reason for that is very clear. The existence of God is never considered problematic in Scripture. He appears in the very first verse as the great presupposition for everything that exists.
In the beginning, God created.
[Me speaking]
And here is an excerpt from Episode 14 where I discuss how the idea that you don’t prove God’s existence but simply assume it to be true, and see where it takes you.
[Me speaking in episode 14]
The lecturer tried to tackle the question of proving that God exists. His conclusion was… don’t bother. It can’t be done. It wasn’t just that old adage: “For those without faith no proof is possible and for those with faith no proof is necessary.” His thesis was proving God is a bad idea altogether. To deal with issues of faith, you have to assume there is a God and then see where that takes you.
Oh no… They got me again. They made the connection to something I already believed.
I believe in math. I believe in logical proof that comes from math. But even in the most strict Euclidean mathematical proofs, you have to start somewhere. You have to start with certain things that are given. We call these things axioms and postulates. Without getting into the technical differences between the two, we can simply say that they are things that are so self-evident that they are assumed to be true without the need for proof. You have to start somewhere with a logical argument and then piece things together in a logical manner to develop new ideas.
So, let’s make God an axiom. Start with it as an assumption and see where it leads us. If it leads us to an inescapable contradiction, then we have to reassess whether or not those axioms are true.
[Me speaking in this episode]
That was me and episode 14. Now back to the current episode.
I cannot put into words how important the concept of not proving God is fundamental to my faith. Having listened to the entire tape, I discovered it resonates with everything I taught all those years. Now, I can’t imagine which part of the tape originally left me unimpressed. Eventually, I will probably go through the tape a couple more times, taking extensive notes to see if there are any other gems I’ve missed.
Moving along…
You recall that in Episode 94, I did an extensive section on why sola scriptura doesn’t hold water. That work is based on the teachings of theologian Scott Hahn. I’ve been looking for the first lecture I ever heard from him, where he tells the story of the sarcastic student who challenged him to find where in the Bible it says that Scripture is the sole authority. His inability to explain sola scriptura to that student’s question was the beginning of the journey that led Professor Hahn to convert to Catholicism. A while back, I found a YouTube video that was an audio-only lecture from Professor Hahn in which he tells of his conversion, but it wasn’t the version I remembered. As I was going through my tapes, I found three cassettes featuring Scott Hahn, and I hoped they included the tape of his conversion story I had been seeking for years.
Unfortunately, the first set of tapes of Scott Hahn wasn’t it. It was a debate between Professor Hahn and a Protestant theologian over sola scriptura and sola fide. According to Wikipedia, there were three solae of the Protestant Reformation. In addition to sola scriptura, they list sola fide, which means “by faith alone and sola gratia, which means “by grace alone.” Wikipedia also says that the list sometimes includes solus Christus, meaning “in Christ alone.” This holds that you cannot be saved without Christ. And additionally soli Deo gloria, meaning “for the glory of God alone.”
I was familiar with the argument between the Protestant doctrine regarding justification through faith alone versus the Catholic doctrine that says it is a combination of faith and works that justifies us. I didn’t think I’d heard it described as sola fide, yet that term is used in the debate. In some ways, the debate was boring for me. Professor Hahn is presenting his usual bullet points against sola scriptura, which I already embrace and teach. The other guy is sticking to his position, using a variety of rhetorical techniques to deflect or reframe the argument without really addressing Hahn’s criticisms.
As I dug deeper into the box of cassettes, I finally found the original Scott Hahn story of how he became a Catholic. It all started when a student asked him, “Where in the Bible does it say that the Bible is the only authority?” Here is a clip from that tape.
[Scott Hahn speaking]
One of my sharp students, we’ll call him John, raised his hand one evening in a seminar. “Mr. Hahn, this is a funny question, but where does Scripture teach what Protestants always teach. You know, I’m not a Catholic anymore, so I believe the Protestant teaching. So you know how Protestants teach that the Bible alone is our only authority. Not the Bible and tradition. Where does the Bible teach this doctrine, sola scriptura?”
And there was this sort of rush of emotion. Oh no. I’ve already given up on one of the two basic planks of the Reformation. That is, we’re saved by faith alone, and now he is going to challenge me on, we only believe by Scripture alone. And I said what any professor would say under those circumstances.
“What a dumb question.” (Chuckles)
And I remember thinking to myself, you’ve never said that before to any student with any question. And as I sat there perspiring, looking at John, he looked at me, and he knew it was not a dumb question. And most of my other students knew it too.
I said, “Well, you know, obviously, we would go to Matthew 5:17-19. We would start at 2 Timothy 3:16. We would look at what Christ said about tradition in Matthew 15.“
And John said, “Well, wait a second, Mr. Hahn. You know that uh, Jesus wasn’t condemning tradition in Matthew 15. He was just condemning corrupt tradition. 2 Timothy 3 isn’t saying that the Bible is our only authority. It’s just saying that it is authoritative and necessary to know what God wants.”
And the more he talked, the more I thought, “Well, look, John, since we’re in the middle of class right now, why don’t I just deal with it next week, okay?” Another evasive maneuver number two.
He goes like “Alright.” But I could tell by his eyes that he was not satisfied. Nor was I. I remember driving home that night on the freeway, thinking to myself, “What is the answer to that question?”
I was always known in seminary as the gadfly who would bother every professor with the hardest questions imaginable. I used to always come up with the real stompers. And they dreaded seeing that hand go up. And then all of a sudden, the tables had been turned.
A question I never… I mean, it was sort of like asking, you know, to look at your eyes, or taste your tongue, or listen to your ears. It’s just like, how can you question sola scriptura? The Bible alone. That’s the basis for everything we do. It’s the air we breathe in our theology.
I made two or three phone calls to the top theologians in the country. I’d studied under them or read their books, and I said, “I’ve got a kind of silly question. I know it’s juvenile. Maybe I’m suffering from amnesia. But, somewhere along the way, I’ve forgotten the very simple and unanswerable reasons behind our belief that the Bible alone is the authority.
And as I talked to one theologian after the other, they were all saying the same thing. First, they would say, “What a dumb question.” And then they would say the same thing I had said to John. Giving the same Scriptures. And I would give them the same response that John had given me. And I would say, “What more is there?”
And the response kept coming back, “I mean, look at what the Catholic Church teaches! Obviously, Catholic tradition is wrong.”
And I said, “Obviously. I agree. It’s wrong. But, where is the generic notion of tradition necessarily wrong? After all, St. Paul says, ‘Hold fast to what I’ve handed down to you, whether by word-of-mouth or in writing.’”
I said, “There, it’s referring to oral tradition and not just Scripture.”
And one by one, over the phone, these theologians were all telling me, “Well, it’s the assumption of all of our theology.”
I said, “Well, what if this idea of sola scriptura is not scriptural? How ironic!”
[Me speaking]
As much as I admire and respect Professor Hahn and totally agree with his arguments on the topic of sola scriptura, he also represents an ultraconservative branch of the Catholic Church that does not resonate with my beliefs. About the only thing that Hahn and his debating opponent agreed upon is that abortion is a terrible thing, completely contrary to God’s will.
I first heard of Scott Hahn in a presentation by Catholic catechist Jim Welter, whom I’ve spoken of in my recent episodes. Jim presented a series of lectures at Saint Gabriel’s, which introduced me to the concept of the “ascending view” of Scripture. I’ve already downloaded from VHS Jim’s second series of lectures at Saint Gabriel, which were a detailed comparison of the synoptic Gospels (that is, Matthew, Mark, and Luke).
In my newly discovered box of audiocassettes, I found Jim’s original lectures on the ascending view, and I’m certain that’s where I first learned about Scott Hahn. It may be that this origin story of Scott Hahn’s was simply Jim Welter’s retelling of it. We’ll see. I’m anxious to hear Jim’s original presentation again.
I’ve used the term “catechist” to describe Jim and the work that I did teaching the Catholic faith. A catechist goes beyond simply teaching. The word means sharing of your faith. Listening to Jim’s tape again, I’m reminded that his example taught me the difference between teaching and catechesis. While much of his presentation was a deep scholarly examination of Scripture, he also found ways of incorporating his own passion for Scripture. He shared what Scripture meant to him and encouraged us to share in his passion for the Word of God. In other words, Jim taught me more than simply the technical details of historical-critical Scripture analysis. I wouldn’t be the catechist that I was without his example.
Anyway, that’s all for today. I still have much work to do to get ready to leave the house I’ve lived in for 67 years. I’m building a new assistive technology device that will upgrade my current devices and will include the ability to use the nurse call system at the nursing facility. That project is nearly complete.
I still have a lot of junk to sort through that I’ve collected over my lifetime in this home.
So, say a prayer. Light a candle. Wish me luck. Cross your fingers. Send me good vibrations. Sacrifice small animals. Whatever you do in your tradition that you use to invoke a higher power or generate goodwill is much appreciated.
I hope to get back to work soon on my regular podcast episodes, continuing with my series on the New Testament, followed by the Old Testament.
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I will see you next time as we continue contemplating life. Until then, fly safe